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	<title>Comments on: Betting on the Poor</title>
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	<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/</link>
	<description>How giving can save the world.</description>
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		<title>By: Twitter Debate on Profiting from the Poor &#124; Civic Intersection</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7563</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Debate on Profiting from the Poor &#124; Civic Intersection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7563</guid>
		<description>[...] receiving a lot of comments on a recent blog post in which they asked whether it was okay &#8220;to profit from the poor,&#8221; Philanthrocapitalism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] receiving a lot of comments on a recent blog post in which they asked whether it was okay &#8220;to profit from the poor,&#8221; Philanthrocapitalism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Sorkin</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7560</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Sorkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7560</guid>
		<description>Not just microfinance, but all nonprofits are starved for capital with no social capital markets currently available. An IPO is an novel way to bring social capital and may have value for other segments of the nonprofit world. Philanthropcapitalsits are not afraid to take a risk for the better good. I applaud this new way of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just microfinance, but all nonprofits are starved for capital with no social capital markets currently available. An IPO is an novel way to bring social capital and may have value for other segments of the nonprofit world. Philanthropcapitalsits are not afraid to take a risk for the better good. I applaud this new way of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Unitus Move is Divisive for Microfinance Movement &#124; Humanosphere</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7521</link>
		<dc:creator>Unitus Move is Divisive for Microfinance Movement &#124; Humanosphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7521</guid>
		<description>[...] contend that it&#8217;s just fine to make money off the poor, even charging them interest rates as high as 70 percent &#8211; so long [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] contend that it&#8217;s just fine to make money off the poor, even charging them interest rates as high as 70 percent &#8211; so long [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Aageson</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7509</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Aageson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7509</guid>
		<description>Usury! Those folks feed off the poor to make the rich richer.  Why should investors profit when the value created came from 70% per year interest rates to people living hand to mouth?  Any rake off from an IPO needs to go back to the poor who produced the profit by promptly paying their debts.  Microfinance started off enhancing the Common Good, now it serves the private good.  Shameful banking.  Tom Aageson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usury! Those folks feed off the poor to make the rich richer.  Why should investors profit when the value created came from 70% per year interest rates to people living hand to mouth?  Any rake off from an IPO needs to go back to the poor who produced the profit by promptly paying their debts.  Microfinance started off enhancing the Common Good, now it serves the private good.  Shameful banking.  Tom Aageson</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Mowatt</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7499</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Mowatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7499</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d agree that the for-profit approach has potential because it&#039;s been deployed successfully to leverage microfinance in Russia. I&#039;m referring to a profit-for-purpose approach where business exists for a primary social purpose. 

In the case of the Tomsk Regional initiative and subsequent activity, surplus revenue rather than being distributed to shareholders in dividend is invested in efforts to leverage further social investment. This so far has been from government but we know from the example of Kiva that many are content to be returned their capital without interest.

The R&amp;D for Tomsk was paid back with a consultancy fee, the investment of $6 million dollars repaid as is typical with the moral collateral loan circle approach to leverage around 10,000 businesses with 99% surviving a year or longer.        

SOCAP10 is currently asking for ideas for investing in social purpose, since it&#039;s recently been discovered that as much as $120 billion of US private equity is ready for social investment. 

My suggestion was that the kind of business both Yunus and P-CED advocate, the non-loss non dividend social business can create wealth flows where disenfranchised communities have been deprived of them, in local communities on a global basis. It could help place disenfranchised children in families, fund &#039;soft power&#039; action against terror and enhance wealth and democracy by investing in affordable broadband, clean water and land access as enlightened self interest.  

With our model for example, employees are paid living wages according to local conditions and share in 10% of profit whereas at least 50% is invested in the community and the remainder retained for growth.

There are a very large number of people in the world not motivated by the highest return and would readily invest for a low or no interest return when motivated by compassion, a currency which is universally recognised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree that the for-profit approach has potential because it&#8217;s been deployed successfully to leverage microfinance in Russia. I&#8217;m referring to a profit-for-purpose approach where business exists for a primary social purpose. </p>
<p>In the case of the Tomsk Regional initiative and subsequent activity, surplus revenue rather than being distributed to shareholders in dividend is invested in efforts to leverage further social investment. This so far has been from government but we know from the example of Kiva that many are content to be returned their capital without interest.</p>
<p>The R&amp;D for Tomsk was paid back with a consultancy fee, the investment of $6 million dollars repaid as is typical with the moral collateral loan circle approach to leverage around 10,000 businesses with 99% surviving a year or longer.        </p>
<p>SOCAP10 is currently asking for ideas for investing in social purpose, since it&#8217;s recently been discovered that as much as $120 billion of US private equity is ready for social investment. </p>
<p>My suggestion was that the kind of business both Yunus and P-CED advocate, the non-loss non dividend social business can create wealth flows where disenfranchised communities have been deprived of them, in local communities on a global basis. It could help place disenfranchised children in families, fund &#8216;soft power&#8217; action against terror and enhance wealth and democracy by investing in affordable broadband, clean water and land access as enlightened self interest.  </p>
<p>With our model for example, employees are paid living wages according to local conditions and share in 10% of profit whereas at least 50% is invested in the community and the remainder retained for growth.</p>
<p>There are a very large number of people in the world not motivated by the highest return and would readily invest for a low or no interest return when motivated by compassion, a currency which is universally recognised.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce M.McLaughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7498</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce M.McLaughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7498</guid>
		<description>&quot;By offering an IPO, you are sending a message to the people buying the IPO there is an exciting chance of making money out of poor people.&quot;

If I may be so blunt...

Excuse my language, but this downright chaps my ASS!

How can anyone consider profiting from the poor?  This is a disgusting, reprehensible and repulsive idea.  Capitalism has reached an ultimate low here.

To actually &quot;Make Money&quot; off the misfortunes of others has to be the lowest despicable plan ever devised.

What the author fails to consider here is what if there was a major catastrophic event, which shut your precious greedy money making market down for longer than a week?  How about a Month?  Six months?  Longer?
How will this company fair if and when the market reopens?  Where&#039;s the supposed invested money for the poor going to be then?  Will the short sellers hope for its&#039; demise?  Will the rich step up to the plate and invest in the company supposedly supporting the poor?  I seriously DOUBT IT!

Let&#039;s not mince words here, but there is no way that the proceeds, profits, call it what you will, will help the poor.  Someone will ALWAYS pick the pot clean and come up with some bogus excuse to make it appear legal and legit.  Count on it.  Call it creative book keeping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By offering an IPO, you are sending a message to the people buying the IPO there is an exciting chance of making money out of poor people.&#8221;</p>
<p>If I may be so blunt&#8230;</p>
<p>Excuse my language, but this downright chaps my ASS!</p>
<p>How can anyone consider profiting from the poor?  This is a disgusting, reprehensible and repulsive idea.  Capitalism has reached an ultimate low here.</p>
<p>To actually &#8220;Make Money&#8221; off the misfortunes of others has to be the lowest despicable plan ever devised.</p>
<p>What the author fails to consider here is what if there was a major catastrophic event, which shut your precious greedy money making market down for longer than a week?  How about a Month?  Six months?  Longer?<br />
How will this company fair if and when the market reopens?  Where&#8217;s the supposed invested money for the poor going to be then?  Will the short sellers hope for its&#8217; demise?  Will the rich step up to the plate and invest in the company supposedly supporting the poor?  I seriously DOUBT IT!</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not mince words here, but there is no way that the proceeds, profits, call it what you will, will help the poor.  Someone will ALWAYS pick the pot clean and come up with some bogus excuse to make it appear legal and legit.  Count on it.  Call it creative book keeping.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7478</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7478</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t have to infer that there was any malicious intent to consider this a complicated set of transactions that will, and should, send shockwaves through social enterprise.  The fundamental social policy question is whether tax favored donations to Unitus should have been used to improve the cash flows and hence the valuation of SKS in this IPO since board members with influence over Unitus (nonprofit) programming decisions were also apparently involved in Unitus (for profit) investment decisions.  

A related social policy issue is the extent to which board members and nonprofits must avoid or publicly disclose these entanglements.  If I am raising charitable donations that will benefit an enterprise in which I am also an equity investor, folks may want to know that.

The more immediately relevant question for nonprofit social enterprises is what this may do to fund raising.  As a donor, why should I ever again donate to a microfinance support organization?  Is my donation being used as non-dilutive capital to boost returns for private equity funds? 

The many nonprofits still raising funds to build MFI capacity will have tough questions to answer.  (NB:  Lucky for Kiva, SKS was not one of their partners.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t have to infer that there was any malicious intent to consider this a complicated set of transactions that will, and should, send shockwaves through social enterprise.  The fundamental social policy question is whether tax favored donations to Unitus should have been used to improve the cash flows and hence the valuation of SKS in this IPO since board members with influence over Unitus (nonprofit) programming decisions were also apparently involved in Unitus (for profit) investment decisions.  </p>
<p>A related social policy issue is the extent to which board members and nonprofits must avoid or publicly disclose these entanglements.  If I am raising charitable donations that will benefit an enterprise in which I am also an equity investor, folks may want to know that.</p>
<p>The more immediately relevant question for nonprofit social enterprises is what this may do to fund raising.  As a donor, why should I ever again donate to a microfinance support organization?  Is my donation being used as non-dilutive capital to boost returns for private equity funds? </p>
<p>The many nonprofits still raising funds to build MFI capacity will have tough questions to answer.  (NB:  Lucky for Kiva, SKS was not one of their partners.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jude Chia</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7464</link>
		<dc:creator>Jude Chia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7464</guid>
		<description>Hi Matthew

I think you raised a valid point that for-profit model could deliver great potential, and it&#039;s vital not to be drawn into idealogical battle of whether social business/ for-profit is the only way to go. It&#039;s way too early to place accusation of mission drift. Social finance is still characterized by innovative experimentation, we just need to be more tolerant of such development and evidence-based assessment will be more important than ever to identify the effective model.

Jude</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Matthew</p>
<p>I think you raised a valid point that for-profit model could deliver great potential, and it&#8217;s vital not to be drawn into idealogical battle of whether social business/ for-profit is the only way to go. It&#8217;s way too early to place accusation of mission drift. Social finance is still characterized by innovative experimentation, we just need to be more tolerant of such development and evidence-based assessment will be more important than ever to identify the effective model.</p>
<p>Jude</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ogden</title>
		<link>http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/2010/07/betting-on-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-7454</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ogden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/?p=2060#comment-7454</guid>
		<description>The whole situation with SKS is much murkier than at first glance and raises some big questions about social entrepreneurship and philanthrocapitalism.

To whit: SKS received a lot of charitable money from Unitus. SKS received a great deal of benefit from its original nonprofit tax status. 

So who should reap the benefits of the IPO and in what amount? 

For more, see my latest post: Why every social entrepreneur should be paying attention to SKS and Unitus http://bit.ly/9qw8MH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole situation with SKS is much murkier than at first glance and raises some big questions about social entrepreneurship and philanthrocapitalism.</p>
<p>To whit: SKS received a lot of charitable money from Unitus. SKS received a great deal of benefit from its original nonprofit tax status. </p>
<p>So who should reap the benefits of the IPO and in what amount? </p>
<p>For more, see my latest post: Why every social entrepreneur should be paying attention to SKS and Unitus <a href="http://bit.ly/9qw8MH" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9qw8MH</a></p>
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